Originally published: https://anfenglishmobile.com/features/karayilan-the-most-ancient-people-of-the-region-cannot-be-destroyed-by-violence-71455

“The most ancient people of the region, who they constantly accuse of terrorism, but who are rooted in the depths of history, cannot be eliminated by violence. You cannot ignore the most ancient people of this land and destroy them by violence.”

25 January 2024 | ANF

Murat Karayılan, Commander of the People’s Defence Centre (HSM) Headquarters, spoke to ANF about the struggle of the guerrilla forces and the military and political consequences of the recent attacks on the Turkish occupation forces in southern Kurdistan.

Drawing attention to the great resistance against the genocide against the people of Kurdistan for 9 years, Karayılan said, “The historic resistance of the past nine years and the last phase of mobilisation, from the dungeons to the streets to the mountains, have revealed this reality. In other words, the Kurdish people have shown that they are a will today, that they will never back down in the face of fascist-genocidal attacks by standing upright in the line of Leader Apo on every ground and in every field against the genocidal politics imposed on them and by developing resistance with great sacrifice. This massive mobilisation process has clearly demonstrated this.”

Karayılan noted that the recent actions proved the accuracy of the war doctrine developed by the guerrilla and said, “The most important aspect of a war strategy is to achieve great results with few casualties. Especially for the last three years, the tactical expansion developed by the Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla based on the Apoist sacrificial spirit has clearly revealed this fact. In other words, it is clearly seen in practice that the style of achieving great results with few losses has been achieved. In this respect, the statements made by the Turkish state institutions regarding our losses are complete nonsense; they are lies aimed at deceiving the public opinion.”

We publish the first part of the in-depth interview with Karayılan below.

The revolutionary operations of the Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla are experiencing a rise recently. Martyr Helmet Dêrelûk Revolutionary Operation was the last of the series of actions that developed successively in many regions. What can be stated about the developments in the axis of the rising resistance of the guerrilla and the Martyr Helmet Dêrelûk Revolutionary Operation?

Firstly, we are going through the days that mark the anniversary of the Afrin – Resistance of the Age. I commemorate all the heroic martyrs of this historic resistance in the person of comrades Karker and Avesta Xabûr, and I bow respectfully in front of the memories of the martyrs of the Afrin resistance. Again, I respectfully commemorate the valuable revolutionary Zelal Zagros, who was martyred as a result of a dastardly attack in Kirkuk. Surely, she will be avenged. Again, I commemorate all the January martyrs with respect and gratitude in the person of comrade Leyla Sorxwîn Amed, a valuable revolutionary, Botan Field Commander, and I bow with respect in front of all our January martyrs and martyrs of the revolution. I reiterate once again the comradeship promise we made to them. I would like to express our determination to avenge them and to fulfil their sacred goals.

As to your question, the war and actions that have developed today are the result of the AKP-MHP regime’s absolute isolation of our Leader for 9 years, the oppression-genocide practices against our people and democratic politics, and the attacks launched against our movement for the purpose of total annihilation. With these attacks, they aimed to intimidate our people and completely destroy our movement. They thought that they could liquidate us with the support of foreign powers and Kurdish collaborator forces, relying more on intelligence and technology. To this end, in this war, they relied on getting support from outside by marketing all the riches of Turkey, its geopolitical position and everything; they wanted to get results by spending a significant amount of Turkey’s economy on this war. However, despite all these efforts and various comprehensive, multi-faceted attacks, they failed. These actions are proof of this fact.

This process, which basically started with the self-sacrificial action in Ankara on 1 October, reached a peak with the 20 and 27 November actions, the 22-23 December actions and finally the 10 and 12 January actions. Important actions were carried out on these dates, but there were also many large and small actions that took place during this period. This is a move, a response of the guerrilla against the policy of isolation and genocide. The most recent Martyr Helmet Dêrelûk Revolutionary Operation in Girê Amediyê is an action with a high level of success. It is a revolutionary operation developed with all kinds of admirable performance. It can be stated that it was the most successful action since the Martyr Çîçek Kiçî Revolutionary Operation in Çelê (Çukurca) in 2011.

THE REVOLUTIONARY MOVE EXPOSED THE LIES

In late 2022, the then Turkish war minister declared victory, stating that they had completed the Claw Lock. What do the guerrilla actions developing in the same area mean despite their declared victory?

In the autumn of 2016, when the Turkish state was able to acquire UCAV technology with the help of NATO Gladio, the then Minister of the Interior stated that no one would mention the PKK after April 2017. They put a lot of faith in the external support and the technology they had acquired. They made the mistake of thinking that they could end the Kurdish question, which is essentially a social issue, by means of this technique and intelligence.

Then, as a result of talks with Iraq and the KDP in early 2021 and on the basis of obtaining their support, they planned to completely eliminate the Medya Defence Zones (guerrilla-held areas in northern Iraq) within 2-3 months through the attack they launched in Garê on 10 February 2021. However, things did not go as they planned. While they planned to conclude this war in 3 months, they have been stuck in Zap, Avaşîn and Metîna for 3 years. It is also a very certain fact that they are hiding all the dimensions of this war from the people and public opinion in Turkey.

Right, in the autumn of 2022, Hulusi Akar declared a kind of victory by stating that the operations were nearing the end, that the Claw-Lock, as he called it, was locked. This was a great shamelessness in the face of the facts. Because there is no such success or victory.

Now, this revolutionary move, which started with the Ankara action and culminated with the latest Girê Amediyê action, has revealed all the lies that were told to the peoples of Turkey and the world public opinion as part of psychological warfare.

These latest actions have revealed the reality of the last three years in the great resistance that has been waged for nine years against the genocide of the people of Kurdistan. They prove the collapse of the ‘Decomposition Plan’, a genocide project on which the fascist AKP/MHP government had pinned great hopes. The historic resistance of the past nine years and the last phase of mobilisation, from the dungeons to the streets to the mountains, have revealed this reality. In other words, the Kurdish people have shown that they are a will today, that they will never back down in the face of fascist-genocidal attacks by standing upright in the line of Leader Apo on every ground and in every field against the genocidal politics imposed on them and by developing resistance with great sacrifice. This massive mobilisation process has clearly demonstrated this.

THE MOST ANCIENT PEOPLE OF THE REGION CANNOT BE DESTROYED BY VIOLENCE

How should this level achieved by the guerrilla be evaluated? What military and political messages does it carry?

These actions have proved the accuracy of the war doctrine we have developed as the HPG in military terms and revealed the level of success. The most important aspect of a war strategy is to achieve great results with few casualties. Especially for the last three years, the tactical expansion developed by the Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla based on the Apoist sacrificial spirit has clearly revealed this fact. In other words, it is clearly seen in practice that the style of achieving great results with few losses has been achieved. In this respect, the statements made by the Turkish state institutions regarding our losses are complete nonsense; they are lies aimed at deceiving the public opinion. We are developing the tactical approach of revealing important results with minimum casualties and announcing the results to the public. Apart from this, we do not have any casualties. In short, it is possible to talk about an important military performance.

In political terms, the most important message of this resistance is the ideological and military performance of the PKK and the Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla in its line. It is the demonstration of the invincibility of a power that manifests strong determination, ideological and military stance. It gave the message to the genocidal colonialism that “no matter how much external support and technical means you use, you cannot achieve results through massacre and killing”. This is the message that the Kurdish people, the most ancient people of the region, who they constantly accuse of terrorism, but who are in reality rooted in the depths of history, cannot be eliminated by violence. You cannot ignore the most ancient people of this land and destroy them by violence. The developing resistances and recent actions have once again demonstrated this.

MEDYA DEFENCE ZONES WILL BE THE GRAVE OF THE FASCIST MENTALITY

Do you think that the other side perceives this message correctly and that it will lead to a policy change?

The possibility of the other side perceiving this message correctly seems very weak for the moment. Actually, they have got the message, but they will insist on it. Their statements already show this. The AKP has become the cruelest government ever with an unscrupulous war against the Kurdish people by following the tail of the MHP, which has a clannish understanding, and some fascist-racist Ergenekonists. Moreover, by investing all of Turkey’s wealth in this war, it has left Turkey’s society facing hunger and poverty. If it persists and continues, the Medya Defence Zones will be the grave of this fascist mentality. This is a certain fact. It is not an ordinary, simple claim. In the face of our war strategy, the failure of this narrow, backward mentality, which only understands bloodshed and thinks that it will eliminate the will of the peoples through killing, is certain. No one can ignore the contributions of our resisting popular reality, our mothers, our libertarian women, our youth and the Turkish left-socialist tradition to this resistance. As the self-sacrificial Rojhats and Erdals have recently demonstrated, you cannot eliminate with violence a social reality where there are heroes who can put their lives on the line when necessary.

THE COLONIAL SYSTEM TRIED TO MAKE A PROFIT FROM OUR TACTICAL APPROACHES

The Turkish state and the special war media are constantly propagandising that they have finished your movement…

Yes, there was a certain strain on our forces in the face of the technological opportunities provided with the support of NATO Gladio and the increasing intelligence opportunities in this parallel. In the face of the attacks that developed on the basis of advanced technology in Northern Kurdistan, especially in the 2017-’18 period, we aimed for a rapid transformation in terms of tactics and style of action. However, we realised that we could not implement the style of action suitable for the period with a radical change early on due to inadequacies such as not being able to change and transform early, and adherence to habits, which we can also call the personality traits that structurally exist in Kurdish society and Kurdish human typology. From this point of view, we came to the conclusion that it was necessary to quickly implement a series of fundamental changes in style, method and movement.

For example, since 2018, we have determined it as a tactical approach to reduce or not increase the power in Northern Kurdistan, and not to send too many reinforcements to Northern Kurdistan, and we have implemented it in this way. Some people in the colonial system who are after a career and rent tried to make a premium on this; they tried to show it as their own success. That is a separate issue; it is their own simplicity and self-delusion.

The great war theorist, the German General Calusewits, likened war to trade and stated that in wars, too, steps should be taken after calculating profit and loss. This issue is also mentioned in the correspondence between Marx and Angels. In other words, wars are also a situation that must be planned according to profit and loss. Therefore, when we realised that our losses would increase as long as we did not change our course of action, we of course took it as a basis not to direct too many forces towards Northern Kurdistan. But they treated this as a success of their own and misled their environment and society. They are still advancing on that misconception. When the day comes, everyone will realise that this is not the case.

However, it is certain that the PKK has not experienced a weakening in its struggle along the line of Leader Apo, but a maturation, and that it will demonstrate its invincibility by manifesting this more on the battlefield when necessary. In this regard, no one should believe the stories based on lies at this point. We are a people; we have not been destroyed in any way and anywhere, and we cannot be destroyed; no one can achieve this. It is possible to read the recent actions of the guerrilla in this way. One can see that the guerrilla is a force with an invincible will of steel and high manoeuvrability, and that it has the ability to protect itself and fulfil its tasks in the face of all kinds of attacks. And those who don’t want to see it today will have to see it tomorrow.